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Title: Long haul low fare airlines
onebir  

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(Date Posted: 01/21/2007 10:37 PM)

They're doing some good deals, eg in March:etihad LHR BKK for GBP335 return(www.etihadairways.com)airarabia Istanbul-Sabiha Mumbai/Katmandu/Trivandrum GBP130-150 one wayBRwww.airarabia.com)And airarabia does one way for half the price of a return - a rare combination of price and flexibility (admittedly for slightly exotic destinations). If anyone knows any other longhaul airlines that allow this I've be very interested...Edit Reason: Edited title of threadModerator: Alan L

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attitudetravel Owner
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(Date Posted: 01/23/2007 3:10 AM)


Like the UAE-based Air Arabia, the Kuwaiti low cost carrier Jazeera Airways  operates point-to-point, one-way, low fare routes - from Kuwait to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain, UAE, Iran and to India.

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Alan Lansdowne
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onebir
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(Date Posted: 01/23/2007 1:02 PM)


Are there any other long haul point-to-point, one-way, low-fare airlines?

If you're not sure where you're going &/ when you want to come back - frequently my situation - they seem to be the way to go...

+ together with regional LCCs (& maybe the odd single or open-jaw ticket from a regional carrier) they could allow people to construct RTWs or other complex itineraries...

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attitudetravel Owner
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(Date Posted: 01/23/2007 7:25 PM)


Long-haul, low-fare is a concept which has been much discussed over the last two or three years but very few carriers have managed to implement the concept successfully.

There are some European low cost / charter hybrids such as Condor  which  sell off  a selection of long-haul routes (different at any given time) for EUR 99 but that doesn't include taxes and often the promotional fare for a single leg  is conditional on buying a round-trip flight

(Which means, that even if you end up only flying one-way, it's still going to set you back around EUR 345 including taxes  - which sounds nothing like the original offer at all).

Rival German low cost / charter hybrid carrier, LTU, is slightly better. When it says it has low fare flights available from Dusseldorf to Miami (for example) for EUR 199, it means what it says - the fare includes all taxes and charges.

Scheduled  low fare transatlantic carriers include Zoom  and Fly Globespan.

But long-haul low fare carriers elsewhere are only just beginning to establish themselves - there have already been a few high-profile failures like CivAir which wanted to fly low cost from South Africa to the UK and BackpackersXpress which wanted to hop across the world from the UK and Germany to Delhi in India, then on to Bangkok in Thailand and finally on to Sydney in Australia. Neither airline ever  managed to get off the ground.

Air Baltic  now flies from Riga in Latvia to Tashkent in Uzbekistan, which is quite impressive.

Oasis  had a high-profile launch at the end of October 2006 and now flies low cost from Hong Kong  to London Gatwick. It will also start operating trans-Pacific flights to Oakland in California from June 2007.

Viva Macau  already flies from Macau to Jakarta and Male in the Maldives and has plans to fly to Europe, Australia and the United States.

And then there's the much anticipated Air Asia X...

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Alan Lansdowne
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onebir
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(Date Posted: 01/24/2007 12:15 AM)


Thanks - I hadn't heard of most of those

Actually, I think any airline which isn't too expensive & where the single economy fare is about 1/2 the return is interesting. You could do something like this:
London-Istanbul (Easyjet ?0)
Istanbul-Trivandrum (Airarabia ?50)
overland -> Chennai
Chennai-Singapore (airindiaexpress ?0)
Singapore-Hongkong (jetstar ?0)
Hongkong-London (oasishongkong ?50)

Total: ?40 (priced March - Aug 07 - unless there aresome taxes lurking later in some of the booking processes - roughtly what a BA return to KL cost me a while back)

& perhaps LTU etc would allow you do do something similar in the Americas (their website makes working out exactly which routes they fly quite painful though.)

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attitudetravel Owner
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(Date Posted: 01/24/2007 5:30 AM)


Yes! The emergence of long-haul low cost routes means that increasingly, independent travellers will be able to arrange and book their own round-the-world itineraries - and it will cost much less than a traditional RTW ticket.

It first became possible  to circumnavigate the globe on low cost airlines towards the end of last year, after easyJet  introduced budget flights from London to Istanbul in Spring 2006 and JetStar International  started flying from Australia to Hawaii in Autumn 2006.

So, looking  at your itinerary above, from Singapore...

Singapore to Bali: Valuair

Bali to Melbourne: Jetstar International

Melbourne to Honolulu: Jetstar International

Honolulu to Vancouver: WestJet

Vancouver to Manchester: Fly Globespan

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Alan Lansdowne
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onebir
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(Date Posted: 01/24/2007 12:46 PM)


I'm surprised people aren't a bit more excited about this. Apart from saving money, it means you only have to know your dates one hop in advance - or not even that if there's no one way ticket requirement. So if you like it somewhere, you can stay longer...

You've identified an itinerary built entirely from routes of low-cost long-haul carriers (LCLHCs). But I suspect at the moment there aren't many potential itineraries like this, because there aren't many LCLHCs. And because some of their websites aren't very user friendly (eg LTU) it's very hard to work out how to do it. (Skyscanner.net would offer a solution to this if it was comprehensive enough, but at the moment it isn't)

Maybe you could develop a 'DIY RTW ticket' section:
a) with info on low-cost long-haul carriers (perhaps including some kind of route map, although I know these are hard to develop)
b) identifying which conventional carriers also offer one-way or open-jaw flights (important at the moment because LHLCC carrier coverage is patchy)
and
c) identifying major LCCs/overland routes transport for getting between flight terminuses. (eg the BKK-KL-Singapore train)
d) providing some information and links on relevant visa issues, and airline requirements (eg onward tickets, which can really throw a spanner in the works)

A lot of this is already on your site. And pulling it together like this would be relevant to anyone wanting to travel, cheaply and flexibly, with a complex itinerary. To present a good chunk of info in one place like this I think would be an internet first... (or I'm missing something!)

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(Date Posted: 01/24/2007 2:00 PM)


Maybe you could develop a 'DIY RTW ticket' section...

That sounds like a big project!

But I agree, it would be a very useful resource and lots of fun to play with. I have a stackload of work on at the moment but I will certainly keep your idea in mind.

In the near-term you can certainly expect a new Transatlantic Low Cost Carrier section and a Transcontinental Low Cost Carrier section similar to the sections of attitude Travel  already covering Europe, Asia, the Middle East  and Australasia and the Pacific.

The new Transatlantic section will cover all the low cost long haul airlines flying between Europe and  the Americas (or Europe and the Caribbean). The Transcontinental section will cover flights from Asia to Europe, from Africa to Europe and Trans-Pacific flights (and anything else which isn't Transatlantic).

But I suspect at the moment there aren't many potential itineraries like this

Reassuringly, there are more all the time, as various airlines expand their route networks. The bottlenecks at the moment are these stretches:

Istanbul - Sharjah - [destinations in India] on Air Arabia

[departure points in Australia] - Hawaii on JetStar International

This will change in the first instance when carriers (perhaps some of the major players?) find a way to start operating low fare flights between Europe and South Asia.

And in the second instance when more Asian carriers start flying long-haul low fare trans-pacific flights to Hawaii and North America. (Oasis  and Viva Macau  have both already signalled their intentions to operate routes to California and Hawaii respectively).

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onebir
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(Date Posted: 01/24/2007 7:36 PM)



In the near-term you can certainly expect a new Transatlantic Low Cost Carrier section and a Transcontinental Low Cost Carrier section similar to the sections of attitude Travel already covering Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Australasia and the Pacific.



I think that'll do the trick... especially if it aims to identify all carriers that'll sell you a priced single for around half the price of a return

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Konangrit
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 12:15 PM)


This is something I've been interested in for quite a while, when Oasis start flying to San Fransisco, a DIY RTW trip will be cheaper than ever.

Alan missed out Aer Lingus for transatlantic flights. They have restructured as a budget carrier, and were cheaper and more flexible than the transatlantic carriers mentioned above the last time I checked. The cheapest flights seem to be about a month in advance. A quick search on their site brings up NYC-Dublin 27 Feb $190 including tax & extras, That's under ?00! Dublin to NYC is only slightly more expensive due to higher taxes. How about west coast? Feb 16 LA-Dublin $263 inclusive. Boston-Dublin is also from $190, whereas Chicago-Dublin is $221.

From Dublin you can connect to most major European Cities, and many smaller ones with Ryan Air, or continue with Aer Lingus.
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 12:39 PM)


Back in November I decided to plan a RTW budget itinerary to see what sort of price was possible. Note that some airlines are cheaper to book closer to departure time, whereas others are more expensive, so to get the best price you'd have to book some legs in advance, and others closer to when you wish to fly. The dates in my example itinerary reflect this, but should give a good example of the price when booked closer to the time you wish to fly. The last leg is my home city, LUT should be about the same price, but far less convenient!

Luton-Istanbul Nov 28 EasyJet $53.21
Istanbul-Sharjah Nov 27 AirArabia $89.40
Sharjah-Chennai Nov 29 AirArabia $122
Chennai-Singapore Nov 29 AirIndiaXp $139.20
Singapore-Darwin DEC 24 TigerAir $119
Darwin-Melbourne JAN 17 VirginBlue $99.27
Melbourne-Honolulu Jan 22 JetStar $329.69
Honolulu-Los Angeles Dec 09 ATA $137.79
Los Angeles-New York Jan 16 ATA $128.10
New York-Dublin Feb 28 Aer Lingus $200.50
Dublin-Bristol Mar 03 Ryan Air $26.63
$1445(?36)

This year should open up far more routes, and bring the price down significantly. I'm going to see what sort of price is possible now that Oasis is up and running. If anyone else would like to see what interesting routes they can come up with,I'd be interested in seeing them.
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 2:29 PM)


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Konangrit
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 3:14 PM)


I came up with this:

Gatwick-Hong Kong $285 Feb 17 Oasis
Hong Kong-Macau $18 Wkdays TurboJet
Macau-Singapore $65 Mar 27 Tiger
Singapore-Darwin $120 Apr 06 Tiger
Darwin-Melbourne $107 Feb 28 Virgin Blue
Melbourne-Honolulu $308 Apr 27 JetStar
Honolulu-Los Angeles $138 Feb 13 SouthWest
Los Angeles-Dublin $263 Feb 16 Aer Lingus
Dublin-Gatwick $27 Mar 05 RyanAir

Total $1331 or ?79

You can also fly from LA to London with a one hour stop in Dublin for $294.
Konangrit
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 3:22 PM)


Previously when I checked ATA were a few $s cheaper than South West Airlines, as should be expected as they operate the South West flights, but when I checked today South West are significantly cheaper, $138 Vs $200+. Strange as SWA site still says that they are operated by ATA.

South West are currently the cheapest airline operating between Hawai and the Continental US, so you might like to add them too.
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 4:32 PM)


I've just found this useful site which calculates distances between major cities, and thought I'd use it to calculate the cost in cents per kilometer. It would be useful to see just how cheap some airline's "budget" flights actually are. Maybe to qualify as budget flights should be below a certain number of c/KM. The shorter the flight, the higher the % of tax, the price before tax of the Dublin-London was just 1c, so that needs to be accounted for too.

http://www.etn.nl/distance.htm

Gatwick-Hong Kong $285 Feb 17 Oasis 0.029 c/KM
Hong Kong-Macau $18 Wkdays TurboJet
Macau-Singapore $65 Mar 27 Tiger 2.6 c/KM
Singapore-Darwin $120 Apr 06 Tiger 3.6 c/KM
Darwin-Melbourne $107 Feb 28 Virgin Blue 3.4 c/KM
Melbourne-Honolulu $308 Apr 27 JetStar 3.5 c/KM
Honolulu-Los Angeles $138 Feb 13 SouthWest 3.4 c/KM
Los Angeles-Dublin $263 Feb 16 Aer Lingus 3.2 c/KM
Dublin-Gatwick $27 Mar 05 RyanAir 5.8 c/KM

This started as I noticed Aer Lingus fly to Dubai for 195 Euros, $252, ?28. This didn't seem as much of a bargain as the other long haul flights that I've looked up today, it calculates to 4.3 c/KM, which is quite a bit higher than the rest.It does offer a direct route to the UAE rather than via Istanbul though.

Konangrit
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 4:59 PM)


They all seem expensive compared to this :

Istanbul-Luton 29 Mar $33 Easyjet 1.4 c/KM.
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 8:00 PM)


Reply to : Konangrit
South West are currently the cheapest airline operating between Hawai and the Continental US, so you might like to add them too.
Thanks for that - I will.

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onebir
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(Date Posted: 01/25/2007 9:55 PM)



I've just found this useful site which calculates distances between major cities, and thought I'd use it to calculate the cost in cents per kilometer.



This site's a bit easier on the eyes: Great circle mapper


It would be useful to see just how cheap some airline's "budget" flights actually are. Maybe to qualify as budget flights should be below a certain number of c/KM. The shorter the flight, the higher the % of tax...


There are other factors that make comparing flights difficult. The most fundamental is that there's (quasi)fixed cost element for each flight, made up of:
- the extra fuel costs of take-off, ascent to cruising altitude & landing
- landing fees
- turnaround costs (cleaning the plane, increased downtime of crew with shorter flights etc)
+ larger planes are used for longer flights, which should be more efficient

If you plot cost vs distance, for lots of flights of varying distance & fit a curve, you get a fairer idea of what's 'budget'. (Although this would still miss some important factors - eg differences in landing fees charged by different airports)

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MHG
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(Date Posted: 01/27/2007 4:52 PM)
onebir
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(Date Posted: 01/27/2007 7:13 PM)


That is unconventional!

Perhaps too unconventional for me...

I wonder if any other low cost carriers rogue nuclear powers are doing good deals. Transit via Pyongyang anyone? :P

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Term Papers
(Date Posted: 11/19/2009 5:27 AM)


This year should open up far more routes, and bring the price down significantly. I'm going to see what sort of price is possible now that Oasis is up and running.


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